It is worth reading the revised OED entry on orange, which shows that the word entered English without the
n-. It was already shown in this list in April 2014 that this Arundel etymology is wrong. The Churnet story must be wrong too, because the name is not **Charnet.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: The English Place-Name List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Martin Counihan
Sent: Friday, 16 March 2018 10:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: aet Yarnant/aet Yarnet: the 1st OE name for Rocester STF. W Garnant "rough stream"
Nick,
Just picking up on what you wrote about Arundel in your first paragraph: to modify your proposal slightly, perhaps “Tarrant” was misinterpreted by Anglo-Saxons as “(ae)t Arrant”, and then the preposition was dropped, leaving “Arrant”,
whence “Arun”, which reminds me of why we have “orange” instead of “norange”. Would this be more plausible than having “aet Taerente” evolve into “Arundel”?
Martin Counihan
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 10:55 AM
> From: "Nick Corbett" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: aet Yarnant/aet Yarnet: the 1st OE name for Rocester STF. W Garnant "rough stream"
>
> Like the SSX Arun, the Churnet is a surviving pre-Eng RN - but surviving having undergone early medieval back-formation from the chief inhabited place on its banks (this having been named from the watercourse The SSX PN was aet Taerente,
giving mod Arundel).
>
> The RN Churnet is equivalent to fairly common I think older top W "Garnant" (garw "rough" + nant). There's one in CRM.
> For the devpt of -nant to -net in the 2nd syllable, compare the Hoddnet in SHR.
> I have previously got this far in these posts - but missed I think the aet-effect, which accounts for the initial hmm is it a fricative? /tch/
>
> Aet Yarnant (the regular devpt in OE, cf the R Yarrow in Lancs) is re-analysed and gives a modified RN /Tcharnant/Tcharnet"
> Aet is a prep used in front of PN, not RN, and ergo must have been the 1st OE name of Rocester.
> The pre-English PN will have been the Pr W equiv of Garnant. The pre-Eng RN was the Pr W equiv of Garnant. Garnant PN was a Tsaritsyn name (confluence name named after river B)
> Rocester is also a Tsaritsyn name - but via translation OE ruh "rough" = W. garw.
> W garw was a monosyllable until the later ME - "/garve/ for the cynghaneddwyr, though poetry conventions are often archaisinng, esp in W.
>
> Hoddnet SHR("hawdd" pleasant/"blithe" + nant) might be the antonym of Garnant - there is a R Blyth two watercourses down from the Churnet - so it might be a translated name.
>
> Thanks for reading this post. nick
>