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I note these in Keith Briggs, An index to personal names in English place-names (forthcoming): Ælfwine PASE182 (OE, ODan) (→Ælfwynn, Alfwynn (f)) DLV; ASCh5.29; Alban Lane (Chester) (Ch); Alston (D); Aluinelee Hy 3, Aluineode c.1250, Alumeweye (for Aluine-) c.1260 (Db); Elvington (ERY); Alvingate, Alvington, Elton, Alvinebach 1276, Alvonewelle 14th, Alwynneshomme 1256 (Gl); Winsley House (He); ?Elstob (ND); Aluvynesfeld t.Ed 1 (Nth); Alwinescrofte c.1240 in Sibford Gower (O); Alvington (So); Alwinesrode 1204, Alwynhill 13, Elfwinetrop 1155 (WRY). Ælfwynn fem PASE8 (→Ælfwine) Alwington (D); ?Allum Green (Ha); ?Alvington Manor Farm (IoW); ASCh17–18.126; Alvington (Gl); Aluinelond 1244 in Stanton Harcourt (O); Aveley Hall (in Assington) (Sf); Alvington (So). Ælfwine thus seems especially common in place-names, and I would suggest that Richard's Elvinelond is an instance. Keith ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Carole Hough <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 09 July 2020 10:08 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ilnenelane Yes, there's absolutely no problem with the same specific combining with different generics. It's the preponderance that I thought might be suggestive. Carole ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 09 July 2020 09:57 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [EPNL] Ilnenelane ODFNBI under Alwin has some good examples, with the nicely comprehensive comment "from the Middle English personal name Alwin, Elwin, representing several Old English names: Ealdwine, Æðelwine, Ealhwine, and Ælfwine . These names are composed respectively of eald ‘old’, æðel ‘noble’, ealh ‘temple’ and ælf ‘elf, sprite’, + wine ‘friend’". So with Ælfwine in a place-name we could have an apparent elf when there really isn't one. In Homersfield in Suffolk I've got Alwineshill 1200 and Alwynestenemen 1368, showing that you can get the same name with a topographic generic and with not. Keith ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Carole Hough <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 09 July 2020 09:38 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ilnenelane Yes, but the preponderance of topographical generics may support the 'elf' interpretation. Carole ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 09 July 2020 09:31 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [EPNL] Ilnenelane If any of these are written Eluin- in the original manuscript (and mistranscribed as Elvin-), then they might be from the name Ægelwine, or even Æþelwine. Keith ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Jeremy Harte <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 09 July 2020 09:17 To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ilnenelane Wonderful! Another example, and an early one, to add to Elvendon, Ulvendon c.1240 (PN Oxon 1 p52 – note the U), Elfonenghouses 1308 in Dacre (PN Yorks WR 5 p142), Elvinhowe 1577 in Gosforth (PN Cumb 2 p397), Elven Close C17 in Cookham (PN Berks 1 p86), and the undated, unlocated and apparently otherwise unknown Elvenfen in Lincs (EPNE 1 p149). And Dorchester, unless someone finds an eln/iln/uln/yln lurking in a forgotten corner cupboard of the lexicon I have doubts about elfen as a presumed feminine form: so does Alaric Hall, I think. I’d be happy with it as an adjective rather than an analogical ME plural, but is that possible? Jeremy From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Richard Coates Sent: 02 July 2020 16:10 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ilnenelane Pure coincidence - a correspondent today tells me of a form Elvinelond in a boundary clause of a charter of Cringleford, Norfolk (Arundel MS., unspecified, c.1250). Does that help? Richard ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Sent: 02 July 2020 10:35 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Re: [EPNL] Ilnenelane My point is perhaps the stronger one that even viewing the original will not help – unless there is a missed variant reading; in this case a single Ilfen- would clinch it. I know Leu is correct for the Ipswich surname, because it is occasionally Lew. In the attached image from a Henry III fine roll, the top name must be Punteis, but the u and n are identical, so is the bottom name Telnetha’ or Teluetha’? Keith From: The English Place-Name List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Harte Sent: Thursday, 02 July 2020 10:08 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Re: Ilnenelane Elnena would, I believe, be ‘of the fore-arms’ rather than ‘like an elbow’. Keith has hit on the weak point in my argument, though as that’s one which would involve going down to Dorchester to have a look at the original charters it’s not going to be solved immediately. They’re DC-DOB/A1 and A2 in the Dorset History Centre. Jeremy On 02/07/2020, 09:45 Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: I presume "1195" should be 1995. I'm not sure we "can rule out the possibility that the original editor, Charles Herbert Mayo, mistranscribed the name eleven times over". Very often u and n are absolutely indistinguishable, and once you get the idea that n is correct, it biases perceptions towards that reading. There was a thirteenth-century Ipswich family called Leu, but this is given as Len by many authors. I have many similar examples. If it was misread from Ilm-, you might have elms, but that is a much less likely misreading. Keith ________________________________ From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Jeremy Harte <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Sent: 02 July 2020 09:27 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Ilnenelane When I was a lad, I believed almost everything I read in books, and absolutely everything I read in books published by the English Place-Name Society. So I was chuffed to find, in the section on Dorchester in PN Dorset 1 p350, that Colliton Street was ‘earlier (la) Vlnen(e)lane 1393–1436... Ilnen(e)lane 1401–1428... If, as seems likely, Vln-, Iln- are errors for Vlu-, Ilu-, the first of the early names probably means “elves’ lane”, either from OE elf (WSax ielf) (if en(e)- represents an analogical ME wk. gen pl., v. -ena), or, as Professor Löfvenberg suggests, from the fem. OE elfen (WSax ielfen)’. In those days I was often in Colliton Street, where the absence of surviving she-elves was a bit of a disappointment. But time has brought its compensations, one of which is a full set of the Proceedings of the Dorset Nat. Hist. & Arch. Soc, where in 117 (1195) pp21–50 I find an article by the late Jo Draper on ‘The topography of Dorchester in the fifteenth century’, which includes (pp36–8) a very full form series for this street name: Vlnenlane 1393 Ulnenlane 1401 Ulnlane 1399, 1436 Ilnenelane 1401, 1408, 1408, 1410, 1413 Ilnenlane 1422, 1428 These are the same references as in PN Dorset but I cannot for the life of me see how Vln- and Iln- could consistently appear as an error for Vlu- and Ilu-. These are borough records and the notaries were writing down the name of a street that they’d known all their lives. I think we can also rule out the possibility that the original editor, Charles Herbert Mayo, mistranscribed the name eleven times over, as Jo worked on her topography with the archivist Margaret King who went back to the originals and confirmed Mayo’s general accuracy. So all the philological learning behind Mills’ etymology has gone to waste. But does anyone have a better one? I can see that the C14/15 forms might derive from an original ylnena lane, ‘street of the ylns’. But what the devil is an yln? Jeremy Harte ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the EPNL list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=EPNL&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/EPNL, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/