According to Davis p.xxx, a division of a hundred similar to (but perhaps not identical to) a lete.
Keith
From: The English Place-Name List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Doughety
Sent: Tuesday, 29 September 2020 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
Do you know what ferdering is/are?
Stephen
On 29 Sep 2020, at 15:39, Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I gave most of the context in my first email, but the extra bits about being next to a ferdering may help:
terra Ricardi filii Ernoldi sunt xii ferdering et quoddam wambling in parco de Asintone quod est terra duorum boum est adiacens huic ferdering.
Keith
PS: the text can be searched (but not viewed) at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015066342463<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbabel.hathitrust.org%2Fcgi%2Fpt%3Fid%3Dmdp.39015066342463&data=02%7C01%7Ckeith.briggs%40bt.com%7C3ce12aec5a0f48aa30b308d8648fc2a9%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637369916775484440&sdata=r2Rqk31lNAVKKcb9YXgD70467lymZQ1tNU3IhHhrexI%3D&reserved=0> .
________________________________
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Stephen Doughety <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 29 September 2020 15:25
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
Thanks Keith,
Some mediaeval Kalendars are time-related, (mapping out the church year, seasonal labours and leisures, phases of the moon and so on), but, as you say, if Abbot Sampson’s is more of an extent, it's not time-related. Rambling is also definitely ruled out!
Is there any further context or is the sentence in isolation?
What about the etymology of wambling? Could it be wamb-ling?
On 29 Sep 2020, at 14:44, Keith Briggs <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
The Kalendar of Abbot Samson is not time-related in the sense of a modern calendar. The title fits OED sense 4.a "a list or register of any kind". The document is more like what is usually called an extent. The word "ramble" does not come into English until about 300 years later.
Keith
________________________________
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Stephen Doughety <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 29 September 2020 13:15
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
I was thinking along the same lines as Linda, but maybe referring to uneven or rolling rather than swampy ground.
However, maybe a daft question, but does wambling necessarily refer to a piece of land? Given that the reference is in a Kalender, could it not be more time-related and refer to an event or a process or a thing, living or otherwise? For example, (pure conjecture) could a wamb (womb)-ling mean a new born Ox or denote the birth of some such? Is there more context available - the time of year? Was it the wambling season (early spring?) perhaps? Then again, back to land, might it be a place where wambling (whatever it may be) takes place?
Perhaps the Abbot had difficulty pronouncing his ‘r’s? Rambling? A place for oxen to ramble or roam?
Stephen
On 29 Sep 2020, at 12:14, Jeremy Harte <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Well, looking at it the other way, is a bos ever anything other than a plough-ox? I had thought that when grazing was measured by reference to abstract individuals, they were not boves but vaccae: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2593288?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F2593288%3Fseq%3D1%23metadata_info_tab_contents&data=02%7C01%7Ckeith.briggs%40bt.com%7C3ce12aec5a0f48aa30b308d8648fc2a9%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637369916775484440&sdata=EETfmKKhTdFFjR4vPNx2h6qIIDv41C1Ox6wOwZN%2FviE%3D&reserved=0>. But they may do this differently in Suffolk.
Jeremy
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Keith Briggs
Sent: 29 September 2020 12:08
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
Was this really arable, when it is stated to be land in parco? That term in medieval Suffolk seems to always mean a deer-park [*].
Keith
[*] Nice new book: Deer parks of Suffolk 1086-1602 by Rosemary Hoppitt (http://www.suffolkinstitute.org.uk/books<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suffolkinstitute.org.uk%2Fbooks&data=02%7C01%7Ckeith.briggs%40bt.com%7C3ce12aec5a0f48aa30b308d8648fc2a9%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637369916775494396&sdata=bBH6UBWjKLcTLvWbogpc4UkiHjmB%2F9kJsfbXJdSdF%2FY%3D&reserved=0>)
________________________________
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Jeremy Harte <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 29 September 2020 12:00
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
The 2 bovines are I think units of account, not actual individuals Daisy and Buttercup. Cf. the semibos, otherwise an eight of a carucate and not, as Finberg suggests, ‘the nightmare figure of a beast with one foreleg, one hindleg, and a single horn’.
The unit being measured is arable acreage, and seething or roiling swamps are probably not likely to have been put under plough.
Jeremy
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Linda Corrigan
Sent: 29 September 2020 11:34
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
Are we sure that this isn’t just another word for bog or swamp. There is a ME term, ‘wamble’ which refers to as feeling of nausea, a seething or roiling, and to a gait occasioned by such a sensation. Couldn’t this be simply a transfer of the term to unstable, swampy ground which may well have still supported the 2 bovines?
Linda
Dr. Linda M. Corrigan
On 29 Sep 2020, at 10:45, Jeremy Harte <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
How are we to understand quod est? Does it mean ‘A wambling, or as we might put it, 2 bovates’, or does it mean ‘A bit of land called Wambling, which measures up as 2 bovates’?
In the latter case, we have only the name to go on. Those who know could advise us on the possibility of an appellative *wamble with –ing ‘place of’, or some diminutive of the name Wamba as Wambel. In the latter case, he would of course have remembered what a Wambel he was; but we’re not so sure.
Jeremy Harte
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Keith Briggs
Sent: 29 September 2020 10:26
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
None of this says what a wambling is! OED records † wombling, adv. 'on the belly' once.
Keith
________________________________
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Richard Coates <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 29 September 2020 10:15
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: What is a wambling?
Loosely for two bovates???
RC
-----Original Message-----
From: The English Place-Name List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Anthony Appleyard
Sent: 29 September 2020 09:59
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [EPNL] What is a wambling?
Keith Briggs wrote:-
> A twelfth-century description of land in Assington (Sf) has quoddam
> wambling in parco de Asintone quod est terra duorum boum (Kalendar of Abbot Samson, ed. Davis p.68).
> So there's a connection to two cows, but what exactly was it? Keith
"A certain Wambling in Asintone Park which is land of 2 oxen".
Perhaps, the land referred to may have been enough to graze two oxen ("cow" = 'vacca'.), and was known as "The Wambling". Perhaps someone grazed his pair of haulage oxen there.
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